“More on Baptism for the Dead”
cji
3/11/10
“Tell more about baptism (for the dead) and why it is only done to Temples not churches/chapels. And how it works with a stand in for the dead. Elders said the person could/would make their own choice to accept or reject these works for the dead?”
First any living ordinance which is not required to be done in the Temple (or House of the Lord) – can be done in a Chapel or designated place. In referring to ‘living ordinances’ of the Gospel of Jesus Christ – one thinks of giving a name and blessing on a new born child and baptism at the age of eight and/or when a person joins into fellowship with the Church. The next living ordinances are the ordaining the person a member of the Church and the giving the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by proper authority. All of these ordinances have to be done by one holding the appropriate Priesthood and being delegated to them by the presiding authority. These are the living ordinances which are most commonly thought of within the Church.
Marriage which is performed by someone who has that authority done without the walls of the Temple – is no different than a civil marriage and it’s only valid while both parties are alive (as in all civil marriages). Within the Church this marriage must have the authority delegated to the person performing the marriage by the state in which it is being performed. i.e. Bishop’s and Stake Presidents and Branch Presidents usually hold this civil authority as most ministers, priests, etc. This marriage is done without charge as all of the Priesthood in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a lay ministry unlike other civil authorities to perform marriages.
Second, all Temple Ordinances are both sacred and done within the walls of the Temple. There are both work for the living and work for the dead (or those who’ve predeceased us in this life without hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ in its fullness since the Restoration or since the time of the Savior or other dispensations which fell into apostasy and lost the authority to perform these ordinances.
The most important ordinances performed for the living is that of receiving their endowment – where they make covenants with the Lord and he with them; and Marriage for time and all eternity – or the Sealing Ordinance. The Sealing Ordinance is part of the Marriage ceremony – for those having a Temple Marriage – and is the Sealing of a couple and their family who’ve previously been married in a civil ceremony. As an example – Joyce and I were married in a civil marriage on December 20, 1968 – and Marc-Charles was born on June 18, 1973. We went to the Washington DC Temple on June 13, 1975 to be Sealed for Time and All Eternity at which time Marc-Charles was also sealed to us and as yet any unborn children which we might have at a future date. When Morgen was born on July 2, 1979 he thus was already sealed to us for time and all eternity – or what’s known as Born in the Covenant (BIC). Thus we did not have to return to the Temple to have him sealed to us.
Third, the work for the dead is spoken of by Paul – and for the most part not mentioned as either having been removed or simply so well known as to not deem it needful to mention what work was done in the Temple. One must remember – Temple Work has always been done wherever/whenever the Church has been on this earth in its fullness. Yet as there were converts to the Church – their work and the work for their kindred dead also needed to be done. Everyone has to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ on this earth whoever lived in their mortal probation on this earth. This is one of the purposes of the millennial time when the Lord Jesus Christ will reign – for all of this work to be done. When Jesus died on the cross – one of the things he did during the three days was to go teach in the prison world to those who had not heard the Gospel while alive.
Now in our day with the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in its fullness once again there are Temples on this Earth wherein the work for the living and the dead can be performed. The work for the dead is done vicariously usually by a living relative who’s a member of the Church and has a valid Temple Recommend. Temple Recommends are good for two years and must be renewed by an interview with one’s Bishop or member of the Bishopric and then a second interview with a member of the Stake Presidency. This includes everyone in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – there are no exceptions – even the Prophet and the Quorum of the Twelve and all of the other General Authorities of the Church are required to have these interviews to determine their individual worthiness to enter the Temple (or House of the Lord). Non-members or those without Temple Recommends can only take a tour through a Temple before its dedication or when a Temple has been renovated and before once again being dedicated.
The actual work for the dead done is the same as those listed above – i.e. Baptism, Confirming a Member of the Church, Giving the Gift of the Holy Ghost (by the laying on of hands), one’s Endowment and then the Sealing of family members – to both the living and the dead. This is not to be confusing – for if one takes through the Temple their parents, grandparents (no matter how many generations) a loved one (spouse) then the sealing to each and all is accomplished – thus the living and the dead. However, if a proxy other than a direct line descendant is doing the work – which much of this is done – for there’s lots who’ve lived on this earth who’ve not heard the Gospel. As with Joyce and I we can submit work – but due to health cannot be in attendance this work is done by others for us.
The Church of the Lord is organized and makes common sense. Thus the work proceeds for both the living and the dead. Why the dead? When a King was converted to Christianity in the early Middle Ages – he questioned about his parents and lineage – and was told nothing could be done for them. He therefore refused to join the church as it made little sense for him to be able to go where his forefathers/mothers could not go. The family unit is the only eternal unit which is found on this earth and in the next life to come. Without the integrity of the family – sealed for time and all eternity what real meaning would there be? As most churches teach all are saved through the Atonement - but to them there’s nothing after that – there are no families, no resurrection of body and flesh, no continuation into a 3rd Estate as taught by all of the Prophets and the Father and the Son!
Many have said – that it matters little which church one belongs to – but yet if that were the case why in dispensation after dispensation have the Father and the Son organized a Church to be called the Church of Jesus Christ – led by Prophets and Apostles throughout the recorded history of mankind? We are literally their children – with the same birthright as they have. We are to learn to know them – and thus to be able to become like them – and thus eternally to live with them and our families and their families. Yet many have hardened their hearts to the literal teachings of the Scriptures preferring instead the teachings of men.
Lastly – whenever any work is done for either the living or the dead – there is a caveat! One must accept what is taught to them – we all have our own agency – both the living and the dead to accept or reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the Fullness as found in the Restoration in these latter-days. For the living who accept this – are baptized – endowed – sealed they must live worthy of the covenants which they’ve made or they are to no avail! For the dead the same applies! One cannot intervene other than loving and caring about family members who reject – turn-away – or otherwise deny the truths of the eternal and literal Gospel of Jesus Christ. We can only be responsible for teaching correct principles – sharing our testimony of these truths – and calling all (including ourselves) to repentance – forgiveness and forgetting. One can only know the Father and the Son by turning away from the sins of the world – or all ungodliness and living as one should live to return to the presence of their/our eternal parentage!
There are no surprises in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – all is found within the Scriptures – literally believed and understood. The Father and the Son love us and want us to know where we came from – why we are here and where we can go (with our families) if worthy and in enduring to the end.
I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ and testify to their truthfulness – c/ork
“More to Know”
(so much to know)
cji
3/11/10
Wherever to start
then where to end
learning is forever
eternal and unending
we start each day
ending in the night
embracing all truth
in old age and youth
seeking more to know
with so much to know!
Copyright © 2010 – cji
cji
3/11/10
“Tell more about baptism (for the dead) and why it is only done to Temples not churches/chapels. And how it works with a stand in for the dead. Elders said the person could/would make their own choice to accept or reject these works for the dead?”
First any living ordinance which is not required to be done in the Temple (or House of the Lord) – can be done in a Chapel or designated place. In referring to ‘living ordinances’ of the Gospel of Jesus Christ – one thinks of giving a name and blessing on a new born child and baptism at the age of eight and/or when a person joins into fellowship with the Church. The next living ordinances are the ordaining the person a member of the Church and the giving the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by proper authority. All of these ordinances have to be done by one holding the appropriate Priesthood and being delegated to them by the presiding authority. These are the living ordinances which are most commonly thought of within the Church.
Marriage which is performed by someone who has that authority done without the walls of the Temple – is no different than a civil marriage and it’s only valid while both parties are alive (as in all civil marriages). Within the Church this marriage must have the authority delegated to the person performing the marriage by the state in which it is being performed. i.e. Bishop’s and Stake Presidents and Branch Presidents usually hold this civil authority as most ministers, priests, etc. This marriage is done without charge as all of the Priesthood in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a lay ministry unlike other civil authorities to perform marriages.
Second, all Temple Ordinances are both sacred and done within the walls of the Temple. There are both work for the living and work for the dead (or those who’ve predeceased us in this life without hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ in its fullness since the Restoration or since the time of the Savior or other dispensations which fell into apostasy and lost the authority to perform these ordinances.
The most important ordinances performed for the living is that of receiving their endowment – where they make covenants with the Lord and he with them; and Marriage for time and all eternity – or the Sealing Ordinance. The Sealing Ordinance is part of the Marriage ceremony – for those having a Temple Marriage – and is the Sealing of a couple and their family who’ve previously been married in a civil ceremony. As an example – Joyce and I were married in a civil marriage on December 20, 1968 – and Marc-Charles was born on June 18, 1973. We went to the Washington DC Temple on June 13, 1975 to be Sealed for Time and All Eternity at which time Marc-Charles was also sealed to us and as yet any unborn children which we might have at a future date. When Morgen was born on July 2, 1979 he thus was already sealed to us for time and all eternity – or what’s known as Born in the Covenant (BIC). Thus we did not have to return to the Temple to have him sealed to us.
Third, the work for the dead is spoken of by Paul – and for the most part not mentioned as either having been removed or simply so well known as to not deem it needful to mention what work was done in the Temple. One must remember – Temple Work has always been done wherever/whenever the Church has been on this earth in its fullness. Yet as there were converts to the Church – their work and the work for their kindred dead also needed to be done. Everyone has to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ on this earth whoever lived in their mortal probation on this earth. This is one of the purposes of the millennial time when the Lord Jesus Christ will reign – for all of this work to be done. When Jesus died on the cross – one of the things he did during the three days was to go teach in the prison world to those who had not heard the Gospel while alive.
Now in our day with the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in its fullness once again there are Temples on this Earth wherein the work for the living and the dead can be performed. The work for the dead is done vicariously usually by a living relative who’s a member of the Church and has a valid Temple Recommend. Temple Recommends are good for two years and must be renewed by an interview with one’s Bishop or member of the Bishopric and then a second interview with a member of the Stake Presidency. This includes everyone in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – there are no exceptions – even the Prophet and the Quorum of the Twelve and all of the other General Authorities of the Church are required to have these interviews to determine their individual worthiness to enter the Temple (or House of the Lord). Non-members or those without Temple Recommends can only take a tour through a Temple before its dedication or when a Temple has been renovated and before once again being dedicated.
The actual work for the dead done is the same as those listed above – i.e. Baptism, Confirming a Member of the Church, Giving the Gift of the Holy Ghost (by the laying on of hands), one’s Endowment and then the Sealing of family members – to both the living and the dead. This is not to be confusing – for if one takes through the Temple their parents, grandparents (no matter how many generations) a loved one (spouse) then the sealing to each and all is accomplished – thus the living and the dead. However, if a proxy other than a direct line descendant is doing the work – which much of this is done – for there’s lots who’ve lived on this earth who’ve not heard the Gospel. As with Joyce and I we can submit work – but due to health cannot be in attendance this work is done by others for us.
The Church of the Lord is organized and makes common sense. Thus the work proceeds for both the living and the dead. Why the dead? When a King was converted to Christianity in the early Middle Ages – he questioned about his parents and lineage – and was told nothing could be done for them. He therefore refused to join the church as it made little sense for him to be able to go where his forefathers/mothers could not go. The family unit is the only eternal unit which is found on this earth and in the next life to come. Without the integrity of the family – sealed for time and all eternity what real meaning would there be? As most churches teach all are saved through the Atonement - but to them there’s nothing after that – there are no families, no resurrection of body and flesh, no continuation into a 3rd Estate as taught by all of the Prophets and the Father and the Son!
Many have said – that it matters little which church one belongs to – but yet if that were the case why in dispensation after dispensation have the Father and the Son organized a Church to be called the Church of Jesus Christ – led by Prophets and Apostles throughout the recorded history of mankind? We are literally their children – with the same birthright as they have. We are to learn to know them – and thus to be able to become like them – and thus eternally to live with them and our families and their families. Yet many have hardened their hearts to the literal teachings of the Scriptures preferring instead the teachings of men.
Lastly – whenever any work is done for either the living or the dead – there is a caveat! One must accept what is taught to them – we all have our own agency – both the living and the dead to accept or reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the Fullness as found in the Restoration in these latter-days. For the living who accept this – are baptized – endowed – sealed they must live worthy of the covenants which they’ve made or they are to no avail! For the dead the same applies! One cannot intervene other than loving and caring about family members who reject – turn-away – or otherwise deny the truths of the eternal and literal Gospel of Jesus Christ. We can only be responsible for teaching correct principles – sharing our testimony of these truths – and calling all (including ourselves) to repentance – forgiveness and forgetting. One can only know the Father and the Son by turning away from the sins of the world – or all ungodliness and living as one should live to return to the presence of their/our eternal parentage!
There are no surprises in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – all is found within the Scriptures – literally believed and understood. The Father and the Son love us and want us to know where we came from – why we are here and where we can go (with our families) if worthy and in enduring to the end.
I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ and testify to their truthfulness – c/ork
“More to Know”
(so much to know)
cji
3/11/10
Wherever to start
then where to end
learning is forever
eternal and unending
we start each day
ending in the night
embracing all truth
in old age and youth
seeking more to know
with so much to know!
Copyright © 2010 – cji
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