Received this today – with my reply:
Hi my friend, my brother.
When one meets new people, and become their friend, sometimes the friends do things that are not in keeping with church standards. I like to socialize on some level with these new friends, and am always careful to hold to LDS standards, but I wonder how the friendship appears "to the world."
I guess I am wondering about "guilt" by association.
Of course there is also the possibility that these friend's actions could "dull" my sensitivity....basically what I am saying is "the first time you hear or see an action you are shocked, the 2nd time less so etc."
What is your viewpoint?
You’ve asked a good question and I’ve been pondering it most of the day! Guilt by association has to be within you and what you feel! No one can cast guilt on an innocent person in the eyes of the Lord! One chooses who to be with – if those one chooses make them feel guilty then they certainly aren’t friends and should be kept at arms distance. Sometimes we cannot choose those who we have to associate with and so we have to make the best of the situation and try to remove ourselves when we’re able. Remember everyone uses another – it’s part of what life and mortality are all about. However, we’ve the choice as to how we allow others to use us!
This is a ‘hard’ question – and thus my reply is equally hard – the doctrine is for those who’ve a testimony and understand what they believe and testify to! The decision tree for a true disciple of the Savior is two-fold: 1) Will this get me closer to the Celestial Kingdom with my family? Yes or No! and 2) If it won’t get me closer then why am I even considering it? Once we truly understand what our mission is here on earth – the peer pressures of the world become much less encumbering. The items included can or might be; friends – music – movies – any temptations (good or bad) – language, or indeed anything we have the ability to choose with our agency.
Socializing is not a requirement given by the Lord – there’s no commandment which says, “You are to socialize!” However, the world considers this of utmost importance. Socializing is much different than running into people, saying ‘hi’ and going on with what you were doing. To socialize you’ve to make the decision this is what you want to do. The decision has to be yours! Many like to excuse this behavior and say, “It’s expected” or some similar wording. Justification is one of the surest ways not to make it to the Celestial Kingdom.
One should never be concerned how anything appears to the world – but how does it appear to the Father and the Son and to those who look to you for leadership and a role model. As an example most know not to smoke around me – or to use foul language. Indeed they know not to offer me coffee, tea or alcoholic beverages. Yet they might drink, smoke and swear – but they know not to do it around me – and when they slip because it’s part of their everyday behavior they apologize to me.
Better let’s use something closer to home – we’ve friends within our Ward and Stake – but we’ve also Brothers and Sisters who we would not outside of the Church consider in our normal definition of friends. We’d do anything in the world for them – as we would for any of Heavenly Father’s children if knowing it’s the right thing to do. But would we socialize with them? My answer has always been, ‘NO!’ Why would this be my answer? Because when I’m around them I can feel the presence of the Spirit depart – because of what they say – or how they say something. Why would I want to socialize with someone who makes the Spirit flee from me?? Now these Brothers and Sisters have held important Church callings and I’ve sustained them in their callings to the best of my ability. Hope this brings home the importance of why we’re here and what we’re to be about. The whole of revelation which we’re each entitled to requires we to be in tune with the Holy Ghost and the in doing so have his Spirit dwell with us all of the time if possible.
As to the LDS standards that will vary as much as night and day depending on who giving the standards definition. However, to live the Lord’s Standards leaves no room for discussion or definition – these Standards are Clear, Concise and Correct!
Lastly to address the issue ‘dulling’ one’s senses or sensitivity. It’s not the idea of being ‘shocked’ or even ‘spaced repetition’ it’s whether the Spirit dwells with you or flees! The Spirit will tell you to depart – it’ll be clear, concise and correct – now whether you do so will be in accordance with your agency. Should you ignore the promptings of the Spirit – the next time it’ll be more vibrant – clear, concise and correct. However, if you again choose to ignore – now you’ve a dulling of your ability to feel – i.e. unfeeling – and will not hear or care that you hear not – see not – and most of all feel not! Outer darkness is a shield against feeling on this earth and in our mortality! However, there is no happiness in outer darkness except the façade presented by the worldly and Satan’s minions. This is why most who leave the Church or go inactive can never leave the Church alone – for they blame the Church for all of their unhappiness. Simple stuff – if they hadn’t joined the Church – made their covenants at Baptism – partaken of the Sacrament to renew this covenant – received the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by those having authority – they wouldn’t feel guilty now for forsaking what they testified they knew to be true.
There are many who fall away – being offended or some other reason (usually one involving the Ten Commandments) and have never denied their testimonies or attacked the Church – and many of these eventually reconcile whatever it was that was bothering them and return to full fellowship. This is different than denying the Holy Ghost which when refuses to listen to the promptings of the Spirit they’re in reality doing – a little at first and then more and more.
The Savior in his wisdom – has always left open the path of repentance – not always easy – but always achievable. Too many say this is what they’ll do in a while – after they’ve satisfied their worldly desires to socialize or otherwise demean the covenants they’ve made at Baptism or by partaking of the Sacrament – going to the Temple, etc. Sadly, this is in error as most forget to return or when they do – their lamentations are harder than they can bear – and the world is too much a part of them to return.
Hopefully this has addressed your question(s) – and that we each must remember where we came from – why we’re here and where we can go if worthy – in the name of Jesus Christ amen – hugs and love your brother - c
Hi my friend, my brother.
When one meets new people, and become their friend, sometimes the friends do things that are not in keeping with church standards. I like to socialize on some level with these new friends, and am always careful to hold to LDS standards, but I wonder how the friendship appears "to the world."
I guess I am wondering about "guilt" by association.
Of course there is also the possibility that these friend's actions could "dull" my sensitivity....basically what I am saying is "the first time you hear or see an action you are shocked, the 2nd time less so etc."
What is your viewpoint?
You’ve asked a good question and I’ve been pondering it most of the day! Guilt by association has to be within you and what you feel! No one can cast guilt on an innocent person in the eyes of the Lord! One chooses who to be with – if those one chooses make them feel guilty then they certainly aren’t friends and should be kept at arms distance. Sometimes we cannot choose those who we have to associate with and so we have to make the best of the situation and try to remove ourselves when we’re able. Remember everyone uses another – it’s part of what life and mortality are all about. However, we’ve the choice as to how we allow others to use us!
This is a ‘hard’ question – and thus my reply is equally hard – the doctrine is for those who’ve a testimony and understand what they believe and testify to! The decision tree for a true disciple of the Savior is two-fold: 1) Will this get me closer to the Celestial Kingdom with my family? Yes or No! and 2) If it won’t get me closer then why am I even considering it? Once we truly understand what our mission is here on earth – the peer pressures of the world become much less encumbering. The items included can or might be; friends – music – movies – any temptations (good or bad) – language, or indeed anything we have the ability to choose with our agency.
Socializing is not a requirement given by the Lord – there’s no commandment which says, “You are to socialize!” However, the world considers this of utmost importance. Socializing is much different than running into people, saying ‘hi’ and going on with what you were doing. To socialize you’ve to make the decision this is what you want to do. The decision has to be yours! Many like to excuse this behavior and say, “It’s expected” or some similar wording. Justification is one of the surest ways not to make it to the Celestial Kingdom.
One should never be concerned how anything appears to the world – but how does it appear to the Father and the Son and to those who look to you for leadership and a role model. As an example most know not to smoke around me – or to use foul language. Indeed they know not to offer me coffee, tea or alcoholic beverages. Yet they might drink, smoke and swear – but they know not to do it around me – and when they slip because it’s part of their everyday behavior they apologize to me.
Better let’s use something closer to home – we’ve friends within our Ward and Stake – but we’ve also Brothers and Sisters who we would not outside of the Church consider in our normal definition of friends. We’d do anything in the world for them – as we would for any of Heavenly Father’s children if knowing it’s the right thing to do. But would we socialize with them? My answer has always been, ‘NO!’ Why would this be my answer? Because when I’m around them I can feel the presence of the Spirit depart – because of what they say – or how they say something. Why would I want to socialize with someone who makes the Spirit flee from me?? Now these Brothers and Sisters have held important Church callings and I’ve sustained them in their callings to the best of my ability. Hope this brings home the importance of why we’re here and what we’re to be about. The whole of revelation which we’re each entitled to requires we to be in tune with the Holy Ghost and the in doing so have his Spirit dwell with us all of the time if possible.
As to the LDS standards that will vary as much as night and day depending on who giving the standards definition. However, to live the Lord’s Standards leaves no room for discussion or definition – these Standards are Clear, Concise and Correct!
Lastly to address the issue ‘dulling’ one’s senses or sensitivity. It’s not the idea of being ‘shocked’ or even ‘spaced repetition’ it’s whether the Spirit dwells with you or flees! The Spirit will tell you to depart – it’ll be clear, concise and correct – now whether you do so will be in accordance with your agency. Should you ignore the promptings of the Spirit – the next time it’ll be more vibrant – clear, concise and correct. However, if you again choose to ignore – now you’ve a dulling of your ability to feel – i.e. unfeeling – and will not hear or care that you hear not – see not – and most of all feel not! Outer darkness is a shield against feeling on this earth and in our mortality! However, there is no happiness in outer darkness except the façade presented by the worldly and Satan’s minions. This is why most who leave the Church or go inactive can never leave the Church alone – for they blame the Church for all of their unhappiness. Simple stuff – if they hadn’t joined the Church – made their covenants at Baptism – partaken of the Sacrament to renew this covenant – received the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by those having authority – they wouldn’t feel guilty now for forsaking what they testified they knew to be true.
There are many who fall away – being offended or some other reason (usually one involving the Ten Commandments) and have never denied their testimonies or attacked the Church – and many of these eventually reconcile whatever it was that was bothering them and return to full fellowship. This is different than denying the Holy Ghost which when refuses to listen to the promptings of the Spirit they’re in reality doing – a little at first and then more and more.
The Savior in his wisdom – has always left open the path of repentance – not always easy – but always achievable. Too many say this is what they’ll do in a while – after they’ve satisfied their worldly desires to socialize or otherwise demean the covenants they’ve made at Baptism or by partaking of the Sacrament – going to the Temple, etc. Sadly, this is in error as most forget to return or when they do – their lamentations are harder than they can bear – and the world is too much a part of them to return.
Hopefully this has addressed your question(s) – and that we each must remember where we came from – why we’re here and where we can go if worthy – in the name of Jesus Christ amen – hugs and love your brother - c
“Dulling Sensitivity”
cji
1/13/10
A piece at a time
wearying away
doubt sowed quiet
shaking out truth
blending in things
slowly to erode within
peace found fleeting
meaning without any
dulling sensitivity
the Spirit to flee
empty and alone
darkness filling
gaps and knowledge
soon forgetting all
one piece at a time!
Copyright © 2010 – cji
cji
1/13/10
A piece at a time
wearying away
doubt sowed quiet
shaking out truth
blending in things
slowly to erode within
peace found fleeting
meaning without any
dulling sensitivity
the Spirit to flee
empty and alone
darkness filling
gaps and knowledge
soon forgetting all
one piece at a time!
Copyright © 2010 – cji
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